tv Reliable Sources CNN April 10, 2011 11:00am-12:00pm EDT
you see, there are no real worries about north korean investment funds withdrawing money. the correct answer to our "gps challenge question" was "a," gadhafi addressed president obama as, to our son, his excellency, barack hussein obama. i'll see you next week. stay tuned for "reliable sources." by the opinionated standards of fox news, beck became too incendiary, too radioactive which is why the network is dropping his show. did the dark conspiracy theories turn off the audience and can he retain his influence without the cable platform? as i watch this week's beltway cable battle, i wondered when the press would get around to the human impact of a government shutdown.
did the importance of these cutbacks get lost in the breathless rush to friday's late night deal? plus, the owner of the dallas mavericks likeens sports bloggers to paparazzi and says maybe he'll kick them out of his locker room and provide his own information directly to the fans. we'll go one-on-one with mark cuban. i'm howard kurtz, this is "reliable sources." ratings were simply remarkable, nobody draws 2 1/2, 3 million people on cable news at 5:00 in the afternoon but glenn beck did. yes, his numbers were down 0% and yes, more than 400 advertisers fled but the reason he and roger els' network are getting a divorce has to do with the question of independence. beck's brand was threatening to overshadow fox. beck wanted to increase his own brand without interference. here's how he gave viewers the news. >> when i took this job win
didn't take it because it was going to be a career for me. paul revere did not get up on the horse and say, i'm going to do this for the rest of my life. if you've watched this program and you really -- i ask you at times, hear me, you know what i believe is coming. if you watch tonight's show, i believe you know that i believe we're heading into deep and treacherous waters. i will continue to tell the story and i'm going to be showing you other ways for us to connect. but i have other things to do. >> one of the lessons of this television breakup, joining us now, amy holmes, co-host of the radio show, america's morning news. david zurich and bill press, host of the syndicated bill press show. did glenn beck spinning those conspiracy theories, did he do himself in? >> i think he absolutely did himself in. i tell you what, in a way it's
interesting to see the marketplace function. you can have that audience and yet not have advertisers in the way. but here's how he did himself in, howie. he went too far with -- remember back in october of 2009 within he went on the van after -- he went after van jones. >> white house official. >> when he started saying send me everything you have on members of the obama white house and keith olbermann says send me everything you have on beck, that was a toxic climate for talk radio -- for talk television. >> the beginning of the end maybe. >> that was too zblch let me ask amy holmes. beck had a huge audience, he was very successful. in my view he became radioactive. did he go too far at times? how do you see his demise. >> there was the tutorial side. glenn beck was a person who was putting on scholars and researchers from conservative think tanks, not the media
accepted brookings institution. i think he was a force of nature. often times forces of nature are feared. though have to be explained. 'tracted all of his attention. him not being able to keep the show is because he wasn't following orders from roger ailes. >> a hurricane is a force ever nature. but eventually it goes out to sea. you said glenn beck was a ticking time bomb. what made him explode? >> a couple of things. first lesson i learned in television, it doesn't matter how big you are, or how popular you are, your days can be numbered. you can go and nobody will miss you. i think that's what -- what made him explode is building on some of the other stuff, i think he had a complex, i think he started to take himself too seriously. he thought he had a god-given mission. he talked -- he became televangelist televangelistic.
>> some people like that. >> i think it's okay from rick warren or pat robertson. roger ailes didn't want it at 5:00 f. you were to compare glenn beck to many of the folks on msnbc, ed shultz, he has a message, one he believes needs to get out there into the public conversation. lawrence o'donnell declares himself to be a socialist. >> whoa, whoa, whoa. there's nothing wrong -- >> than going after a low-level functionary at the white house. >> how he used the word incendiary or toxic or radioactive, when you say the japan earthquake was god punishing the people of japan or the democratic uprisings in egypt is a conspiracy between american liberals and islamic fundamentalists -- >> hold on. >> he's back to a -- really, father coughlin and that brand of extreme right wing radio talk. >> let's play this for the audience. >> you have a president that
loves instability and revolution. there are three powers you will see really emerge. one, a muslim caliphate that controls the middle east and parts of europe. the real answer is the nazis were using early american progressive tactics. that's not my opinion. that's historic fact. >> fine the exit closest to you and prepare for a crash landing. this plane is coming down because the pilot sin tensionally steering it into the trees. >> david zurich, let me pick up the pet to for here. let me pick up the metaphor here. why do you think fox pulled the plug. >> fox is pushing hard, they behaved well on midterm election night. there's a tension between that vision who have they are and what glenn beck did. for all of the good things they tried to do as a journalistic, presenting hemselves as a journalistic institution, he shredded it with that kind of
talk every day at 5:00. howie, that really is crazy apocalyptic extreme right wing radio talk. it has no place on television. we've never had that before. that's the scary thing. >> obviously some people tuned in. you might say the liberal media targeted beck. but roger ailes told me months ago that he asked beck in a friendly way to tone things down. >> sure. roger ailes is the boss. generally you are supposed to do what the boss says. if you don't, you don't get to keep your show. you can string together so sound bite after sound bite of msnbc. >> not like that. >> keith olbermann, lawrence o'donnell declares himself to be a socialist, which he has every right to do but it is extreme. >> there's nothing to compare to that. let's face it again, i come back -- look at bill o'reilly. okay? only glenn beck could make bill o'reilly look like a statesman.
they know there are some limits. beck is such a meg lo maw mania he thought he could -- >> i don't put keith olbermann in the same category at all. his msnbc show, agree with it or disagree with it, was a well researched program. he also left. he clashed with his bosses. >> he said right after the episode i cited in october, debt same thing beck did. he said, give me all the dirt you have on -- and roger ailes, too. it was so personal. this is not what you're doing on cable television. no. let me say this in the middle of these two. because it's true. this is like which carcinogen do you want in your water? here's how beck was worse. beck understood the fault lines
in our sort of history and moral consciousness. he went with the nazi stuff and when he tried to appropriate martin luther king with that rally, he would offend you in your face and not care. olbermann didn't do that. i'll say that for olbermann. >> he had king at his rally who agrees with his message and is the niece of martin luther king. >> here's beck talking about -- >> come on. >> he apologized for this, how liberal judaism -- excuse me, reformed judaism was like radical islam. i have to push back on this, though. you say some of the people at msnbc, just as badp this they may be as opinionated or strident, they may occasionally be irresponsible but they are not trafficking conspiracy theer prescriptions they're not making things up. >> they didn't go there. that's the difference. they didn't go where he did in the case of jewish identity. >> they're not calling people
nazis or go into this anti-semitic rant like he did. they don't call the president of the united states a racist. >> but -- >> wait a minute. there are strong opinions on msnbc and they're paid to give their strong opinions but they don't go over the line the way glenn beck did with all of the stuff that howie just said. >> -- fox news being a bligts on political discourse. you hear that on msnbc all the time. unlike is many nbc fox was not presenting glenn beck as a journalist. they did not have him moderating political debates. msnbc has far more of a tension between their opinion and journalism than fox does. >> wait. roger ailes fired glenn beck. you can't blame msnbc. you can't blame media matters or bill press. we clashd as well. roger ailes knew he was toxic for that network. i'll bet you the other hostsen went to roger alsz and said you've got to get this loon off
the air. >> a lot of journalists feared that glenn beck was becoming the face of the network. a not of the executives thought the same. how much more influence will he continue to have without that fox platform? he's still got quite a following. >> howie, he will have influence. there's no doubt about it. he has all this source of revenue and probably the fox money wasn't that important. but when you go to radio, and also his website was useful to people on the left for a while with the npr thing. but he's going to be marginalized. >> i disagree with that. >> he will. because it's a difference of being on television and we have a history. we have a history of right wing extreme radio talk. >> you disagree because? >> because of rush limbaugh. his influence is profound on
american politics and discourse. radio as a medium, you know, bill press, it's intimate, you're talking directly to your listener in a way that often on tv you're not. >> he needs fox more than fox needs him. >> got to go to break. when we come back, glenn beck isn't the only big-name broadcaster moving on. the afternoon tour begins with more pain and more pills. the evening guests arrive. back to sore knees. back to more pills. the day is done but hang on... her doctor recommended aleve. just 2 pills can keep arthritis pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is lara who chose 2 aleve and fewer pills for a day free of pain. and get the all day pain relief of aleve in liquid gels.
we talked on this program last week about katie couric, very likely to leave the cbs evening news when her contract expires. katie couric failed because she was paid $15 million a year and cbs broadcast remained in third place. is that fair? >> it's not the total story. i believe she failed. by any standard you judge this it's a failure. i believe she failed, this is going to sound harsh but she didn't work hard enough. about three months ago, i wrote a piece saying, when they changed the morning show, they have to change the evening news. it's dead in the water, a step behind everybody. look at how diane sawyer energized abc's evening news. >> what about the fact that the cbs evening news won numerous awards, katie couric is in iraq this week. >> yes, it is fair. she said i don't want to be traveling to stand in front of a foreign backdrop, blah, blah,
blah. she was a reluctant traveler at first. i saw a quote and heard this, said that katie couric works hardest around krlt time. that's a harsh thing to say but that's what they're saying. >> i have to disagree. let me ask amy holmes, so much media hype in 2006 with her being the first woman. now with diane sawyer at abc, that seems less important. >> yes. i think it was a breakthrough for women, saying they would be up there with the big boys. >> it heightened the hype. >> yes. they made a mistake by hyping this, putting her on there, she was sort of set up to meet such high expectations. abc did not make that same mistake with diane sawyer. >> katie acknowledged she change today many elements of the broadcast early on.
the evening news audience, they're creatures of habit. it's hard to grow that audience. >> yes. exactly. look, she didn't get the ratings and she lost the job. i think she's the best interviewer in television. i will be forever grateful for her interview with sarah palin. i think she'll be bigger outside the evening news than she was on the evening news. she's a huge talent. she's not going away. >> she will have some kind of syndicated show and still may have a role in a news division whether it's at cbs or elsewhere. before i go to the tease, i want to mention the atlantic's gillis and three other journalists are still being detained. the gadhafi regime has promised they would be released but nobody has seen them. i want to keep that our on radar screen.
now that the threats have subsided and the countdown clocks will be turned off, the media are trying to assess who won and who lost the great shutdown scare of 2011. much of the coverage seemed like espn at the olympics. all about the games. >> shutdown showdown. >> shutdown showdown. >> it's a race against the clock right now. >> the clock is ticking towards a government shutdown. >> countdown to shutdown. >> i can tell you a source here at the white house says they are more optimistic now than they were four hours ago that a deal will get done. >> the latest news we are hearing from chuck todd, there is a deal on the table right now. >> lawmakers have said now that they reached a deal, both on the democratic and republican side to keep the government open. >> joining is now to examine how this budgetary battle was reported, julie mason, matt lewis, senior contributor at the daily caller and ari burman, contributor writer of the nation
magazine and author of "hurting donkeys." was this covered as mainly a political circus? >> absolutely. it was a bizarre world last week with the countdown clocks and everything. >> it's hours ago. >> it's hard to forget at this point. >> there was all this news about no news which was kind of astonishing. it was all about who was up, who was down, who would win politically? >> there were so many news conferences staged for the cameras win wonder how he had time to negotiate. wasn't it like the fourth quarter of a basketball game? >> the media hyped this, they played it at worst a sporting event and at best an election. budget stuff is tedious. most americans would not tune in or be interested in a cr. what the media did is make it
something people were interested in. ultimately i think it's a win. >> matt lewis endorses the "sportscenter" approach. after all the focus on the political maneuvering, julie mason, the last couple of days when it looked like the government might shut down, it was almost like journalists woke up and said, hey, soldiers in iraq and afghanistan are not going to get their paychecks to feed their families which would have been an outrage. >> that's true. every veteran journalist knew how this would work out, 11:00 p.m. on friday they would get a deal. but we all had to cover the story like it was a real thing. >> they portrayed the ideology. do you think the press did enough to cover that side of the fight as opposed to the winners, the losers and the countdown clock, the theatrics surrounding it? >> it was hard to cover. we didn't know we were part of
these negotiations for so long. we didn't actually know it was in the agreement. then it comes out last minute. is it really about planned parenthood? if you think about it, it was an absolutely absurd reason not to have a budget deal because of $360 million that goes to family planning services. the democrats did for one day make a very good job of making that an issue. >> democrats made a lot of concessions here, $38 billion in spending cuts. yes, this is just a six-month budget and the bigger battles lie ahead and all of that. it seem the coverage didn't reflect, maybe because the republicans didn't want to declare victory that john boehner and his troops got a lot of what they wanted. >> i think they did. republicans are ultimately the winners and john boehner comes out looking really good, like a statesman, someone who got a lot for his base yet still was able to compromise. i think it could have been bad
for republicans if the government did shut down because of the way media narratives were. you talked about the soldier who wouldn't have been paid pore the family who comes to the zoo from omaha and can't get in. those are emotional and real -- it's easy to have a camera and show those stories. the stories that are hard to show like the stories about my 3--month-old son that might have this debt in 30 years. the republican story is abstract, the deficits, taxes in the future are abstract. the media narrative would have killed republicans if it shut down. >> well, i mean, 800,000 federal workers being forced to stay home, national parks and mu sims closing and not getting social security checks processed, all that is undeniable. it's not a media stunt. we often talk about when conservatives say things like you like here's a democratic congresswoman saying republicans want to kill woman. i didn't see a lot of outrage about that. that's hot rhetoric. >> i was on your show a month
ago and we were talking about the heated rhetoric, the new tone we should have in the wake of the gabby giffords thing. all this talk about toning down the rhetoric. here you have a democrat using what is unacceptable political rhetoric for politics. >> julie mason, president obama for weeks seemed rather disengaged, staying on the sidelines. then in the last few days, he started briefing reporters at 10:00 at night. did the white house make an attempt to convince journalists that the president was driving this pro sis at the end? >> at the end. this shows a real maturing of how the white house handles these political swagz. he got in at the end and inoculated him. if they come out with the deal, he gets the krit. if the deal breaks down and the government shuts down, it's not obama's fault. because he wasn't really involved. >> are you suggesting that is reality or a spin that the media -- >> it's a complete spin. when they did come out with a deal, the media was piling on
saying this is great for boehner and for obama. the entire situation was a failure of leadership. how did it get that far? >> because democrats didn't pass the budget last year when they controlled both houses. also because of the posturing that goes on. we in the media reward this in the sense that, you know, when somebody's holding out and making demands and i will not let this pass, we can make for good television. speaking of your point about abstract budgets, republican congressman paul ryan came out with his plan for next year's budget and beyond, $4.5 trillion in cuts over ten years. changing medicare into a voucher program. did the preadequately point out he would also cut taxes for those at the top of the scale by about $4 billion? >> the go-to deep thinker in the republican party and really, this figure who's described as brave and courageous and bold and daring. i think what he's done is introduce a truly radical plan
to gut the social safety net, redistribute income upwards. i would say that's cruel, it's gimmicky and the press has not done a good job thus far fact-checking paul ryan and looking at his ideas. >> most of the cuts come from the lower income end of the scale. you have to say, the counter to that, matt lewis, even if it's journalists who are skeptical of this plan and think it's never going to pass and go on to tackle medicare, at least it's a serious plan. and where is the other side's plan? >> absolutely. there's no easy way to cut $6.2 trillion out of the budget. >> it becomes harder when you cut taxes by $4 trillion. >> when you look at where most of the money needs to come from, it's from entitlements and national security or defense. putting -- >> she he be covered as a serious -- >> absolutely. >> yes. >> president obama will come out with another plan i'm told this week. there will be something to compare it to. >> we'll have a debate about the
entitlements and the future of this country. it's important for to us cover it. let me get a break here. when we come back, why do the networks keep giving donald trump a platform to push his birther conspiracy against barack obama? the united state" so, we thought we'd take a little time to celebrate. ♪ ♪ all right, then, back to work helping clients. individual attention from our highly-trained mortgage professionals. one more way quicken loans is engineered to amaze. t adththod it's dif - alcium crhea
grandmother in kenya said he was born in kenya and she was there and witnessed the birth. okay? he doesn't have a birth certificate or he hasn't shown it. he has what's called a certificate of live birth. when you want a birth certificate it's hard to get. >> but consider the equivalent -- >> it's not the equivalent. >> in the state of hawaii, they said they have seen this document. it is evidence that he was born in the united states. that's good enough for them. scholars have looked at it. >> a birth certificate is not even close. >> julie mason when it comes to this birther issue, trump is peddling nonsense. >> they can't always be smart shows like this one thissen is an interesting side show. the republicans haven't gotten it up. everyone knows it's crazy. >> cnn's candy crowley in an interview that aired on this morning's "state of the union" repeatedly pushed trump about this. she showed if you listen to his grandmother, she said he was born in hawaii.
she called it a cynical play to get attention. she's done a good of job as i've seen. the media initially dismissed others as fringe figures. not so with donald trump. >> he should be dismissed as a fringe figure and stop having him on. he's an entirely a media creation at this point. he's not a serious presidential candidate. he's saying these crazy things to get higher ratings for "celebrity apprentice." the crazier the things he says, the higher the ratings. >> are people who are putting him on interested in getting ratings? >> sure. >> trump is colorful. >> sure, yes. >> he goes up to second place in an nbc/"wall street journal" poll among republicans, presidential preference. journalists are hyperventilating about the guy. i don't understand. he's a accomplished businessman. why he's not running as a businessman. he's running as a birther. >> he brings up other stuff like
china. the birther stuff gets focused on it. >> i spu-- he spent ten minutes talking about it with candy crowley. >> charlie sheen even get credit, even though he says crazy stuff, at least he's willing to say something. if you don't see trump, i didn't see candy's interview. >> i don't think charlie sheen is considering a white house bid. >> not yet. >> if you look at trump he steam rolls the other interviewers. he really does. he's so brazen with it. there's something to be said for that. later journalists go back and show he's a kook in print. >> i think candy in particular, i'm not saying this because she works for cnn, did it on the air. she was obviously prepared for this. what is the greater purpose that is served by giving this guy a platform? not like he hasn't said it on "the view" and other shows, for
an mrgment for anybody who examines it says it falls apart. this is not an argument about epa regulations. >> earlier i talked about how the media was ginning up the budget talk was good. this is an example of where it's bad. the media is ginning up this story and it's not good. >> it goes to show you why the public doesn't think so highly of our profession. >> matt lewis, ari burman, julie mason, thank you. mark cuban wants to provide his earn online news to the fans. plus, we'll ask why he hired dan rather.
mark cuban is one of the most provocative bloggers around. he also happens to own the dallas mavericks and a television network, hd-net. he wrote this week that maybe his nba team should keep folks from yahoo!.com and other websites out of his locker room. he says, i think we have finally reached a point where not only can we communicate any and all factual information from our players and team directly to our fans and customers as effectively as any big sports website, but i think we have also reached a point where we can keep this alive. >> you go charging down the court, going right at these online guys from espn.com and
yahoo!.com. you're preparing them to paparazzi. why? >> their goal is not journalism. their goal is to quickly satisfy the immediate cravings of the reading audience. sometimes that's not necessarily aligned with the best interests of the mavericks, my company. >> i got a chuckle when i read you had written the questions they ask, they do them as traffic generating opportunities. come on, doesn't everybody want to build an audience? >> of course. i'm not denying them the chance to do their business. they have every right and opportunity to do that. i don't have to condone it, i don't have to support oregon enable it. i don't want to hand a heroine junk went needle. >> you say they pursue rumors and are overnegatively when the
mavericks lose. aren't they poll when your team wins? >> i'm not trying to control what they say. it's more a matter of defining credibility and understand what the best moves are for the mavericks. you know, we're in a transitioning media environment. just over the past three years with the explosion of facebook, the increase in use of twitter, other realtime media opportunities, there are so many things that are changing, i'd be stupid not to continually survey and evaluate what's best for my business in terms of dealing with the online culture and consumers of media online. on the flip side, if you look at what has happened with the sports media as they cover sports teams, they've changed as well. you know, the goal is no longer journalism. they've had to spned to all these elements, twitter and facebook and deal with the business impacts on their -- in their world. so they have to respond far more quickly, they do it with fewer
filters. they don't look for first and second and third sources. they don't even look for sources. you have a twice removed headline problem where something starts as a headline or something starts as -- something is written as opinion but someone who's a reporter. >> right. >> but it's picked up as a quote that turns into fact seven times removed. there's all these elements that i have to take into account because the world has changed. so you know, i'm not trying to dismiss them, but i'm trying to understand what the best business move is for me. >> right. >> this is true of political coverage as well, everybody's under pressure to file every 12 minutes. >> exactly. >> thit sounds like you would le to be providing the information about the dallas mavericks and grabbing some of that audience share that otherwise would go to some of the other websites. >> there's two almosts there, control and market share. i know i can't have control. this is the internet. i mean, in this day and age, everybody can have a twitter account, everybody has facebook.
everybody can have a blog, everybody can contribute via comments on any website, whether it's "the washington post" or espn. you can't control anything. so you have to first recognize that you have no control. knowing that, on the other side of the coin, you also have to recognize all those tools that other people use to create commentary and opinion, i have access to those tools as well. but i had the additional benefit of having deeper access to the information, because it's my company. depending on how approach it, then i have unique opportunities. if i approach it like a traditional sports team, and really have heavy filters, then i'm at a disadvantage and it's probably not the right move. if i reduce or eliminate the fitters, there's nothing that espn or any other venue can create or website can create that i can't create. particularly now in this media environment where there's so much turnover among reporters and journalists or headline mongers, however you want to
define each individual person, i have great opportunities to go out and hire them as well. >> right. >> it's a fundamental decision. >> you're not extending this to the local newspapers and television stations. you want them in your locker room. i'm sure there are times when you don't like what they report. why are they in a different category? >> of course. >> why are they in a different category. >> there are plenty of tiles they'll report negative things. let me say clearly, it's not that i don't like negative things. that's part of the game. the reason why television and print in particular are different, because their consumers may not consume online information. there's a segment of the population, they're not hard-core sports fans or hard-core political junkies. they're happy just to watch the evening news, just to read the morning newspaper. to get the information they need to satisfy whatever desires they have about sports or politics or whatever it may be. the only way i'm going to reach them is by dealing with the newspapers and television and to a certain extent radio folks as
well. that's just the reality. will that change over time? probably. today it is what it is. >> so you're not saying that when you, for example, get fined for saying things about referees or the nba, takes issue with what you said that that shouldn't be covered. you know that's going to be covered. >> of course. more often than not i announce the fines before the league does. >> get out in front of the story. that works in every profession. >> it's great, you know, i got find one time for complaining via twitter. right, i complained about the refs. i knew i was going to get fined but i didn't do it because i had a problem with the refs, did i it because i knew it would jack up the number of twitter followers that i had. >> you're saying -- t. was truly a business decision. >> how much was the fine? how does did that tweet cost you? >> the tweet cost me $25,000. >> you're saying that was a good investment? >> exactly. >> all right. >> exactly. >> but are you venting about what these online writers and columnists do? are you seriously considering muscling them out of your locker room? >> no.
you know, i wodn't call it muscling. i think that's pejorative. i'm considering it like any good business was. it's been surprising to me that, because, i wand to make a change in how i interact with internet reporting that there's been such a big response to it. the media is changing so quickly. people are basically saying, mark, you ought to keep things the way it's always been during this internet, during the last 15 years of the internet generation. when in reality, so much has changed, it's literally crazy not to adapt what's happening in the internet and media landscape. it's not that i'm trying to control. it's not that i'm trying to kick people out or muscle them out, what i'm trying to do is figure out the best model for communicating with our consumers, our fans, our customers, our prospects like any good business would. >> i'm sure other teams will be watching your are example as
well if you make progress on that front. let me switch to hd-net. >> sure. >> you hired dan rather. this was after he had left or been forced out of the cbs anchor chair after that story about president bush the national guard, which cbs had to retract. not a whole lot of people were looking to hire dan rather at the that time. why did you take him on? >> first i'm a big dan rather fan. i loved the work he had done. he's a walking encyclopedia. he personifies journalism. his goal is always to try to do his best to get the story right, even in the case of cbs, even if it cost him dearly. those are the types of things i wanted to support. whether it's dan rather reports tuesday night on hdnet, world reports, both emmy award winning, i just -- it's a guilty pleasure of mine and probably, you know, a bias of mine that i want to see somebody go out there and really try to get the story right. you know, there's no filters on dan in any of the stories he
does. i watch them on tv just like everybody else. i don't ask to see them before he does them. you know, i don't ask what the topics are. i don't look to see if they impact our advertisers. i just want him to go out and do the story right. and there's other -- you know, i look at it as doing the right thing and supporting journalism and there's other projects i'm doing as well. >> one fact is media writers aren't reporting on dan rather because they're not seeing the reports. hdnet is in about 23 millions homes, not as big an audience as before. > >> right. on one hand, you know, hdnet is the largest independently owned network in the country, let me qualify, bloomberg, that charges a subscriber fee. bloomberg charges a fee. >> you don't worry about that. >> i care about people watching but i get to make all the programming decisions.
you know, and, you know, dan suspect going to get millions of people watching. he's getting hundreds of thousands of people watching every show. but at the same time because of digital media, because a lot of the shows get posted, at least segments get posted online, the audience grows and grows and good work attracts an audience and good work attracts respect. >> as a basketball guy, you'll understand, as the clock is winding down, let me sneak in one more question. >> sure. >> you've criticized news in general, the news media as too corporate and too ratings driven. what do you mean by that? >> well, you know, there's different ways to e evaluate it. really defining it as too ratings driven, it depends which medium we're talking about. newspapers, as an example, i think they're leaving a lot of money on the table by not recognizing they're in a digital environment. you know, let's look at the pay wall example of "the new york times." that has a chance to be very, very successful if they go beyond just news and start incorporating movies, documentaries, video, and really adding value to their
subscribers and what they pay a la a netflix. but there's too korp meaning too tim duncan in your view? >> i think too staid. you know, i think -- yeah, you know what, i think tim duncan is a good word, howard, because i think right now there are so many -- all these companies, it's kind of like the hdnet thing. hdnet is me. right? i make all the decisions. you go look at time warner and their news departments, you know, nbc universal, comcast, cbs, all these -- disney, all these corporate news departments, people are afraid of whether or not they're going to be able to keep their jobs, and that impacts their decisionmaking. that impacts how they view things, which drives them to look at ratings first and quality second. >> there's the final horn. our time has expired. mark cuban, thanks very much for joining us. >> thank you, howard. i really enjoyed it. >> really a little overdressed in that conversation. still to come, a network journalist gets too cozy with the fbi. what happened after a radio host
this may be hard to believe, but it's in a government document. turns out the fbi had a mole at cbs news, who not only provided information but gave up a confidential source. according to fbi records obtained by the center for public integrity, and i edited this story for "the daily beast," a veteran abc reporter
gave the bureau information after the oklahoma city bombing in 1985, that iraq might have been involved in the bombing, of course untrue. a year later the journalist listed as confidential informant sat dune with bureau officials and revealed his information had come from a former cia officer who had become an abc consultant. that man says he provided the uncorroborated information directly to the fbi. there's a real danger when journalists get too close to law enforcement. i'll quote spokesman jeffrey schneider on this subject. we were cautious and didn't identify the journalist but one who fit the description is now the washington bureau chief for cbs. after he named him as fbi mole he said in a statement --
>> he was a paid consultant to abc news. that statement leaves a number of issues unanswered. he may well have cooperated with fbi but didn't do anything wrong. he's welcome on this program if he'd like to clear it up. controversial radio hosts have a way of talking themselves out of a job, jay sevin fired by boston's wtkk. he was talking about a sexual harassment case and called the two female employees who brought the suit whores and liars. that's pretty bad. then he announced he had sex with interns, then this --